[older messages]
30 Aug 17, 00:17
biblianut: anon, We (I know Ian is still waiting, 8 jun 17) are still waiting for you to put up a debatable topic on Christianity instead of making non informed innuendos that carry little or no substance whatsoever.
1 Sep 17, 00:05
anon: Biblianut, I have attended many funerals where even self confessed non believers, in their grief, appear desperate to entertain the idea that their loved one will be reunited with past loved ones etc. It's such an egocentric human trait to think that our existence MUST be more enduring than our human habitation of mortal flesh. Such beliefs give people comfort to ease the unimaginable pain of grief and loss. Religions (all of them) meet a human need, but that does not make them true. Alas, you are the "non informed" one who believes in religious claims supported by no evidence, other than your personal feeling of desperately wanting your chosen religion ti be true, which is what many call "knowledge"often referred to as "faith". Yet the particular "faith"you choose is 99% dictated by your ethnic and cultural background. Fortunately the scales have fallen from my eyes, so to speak, and I no longer live under the comforting deception of religion.
1 Sep 17, 20:44
biblianut: Of course it is all about grieving whether people believe in God or not. Unlike what I have experienced with Revival Centres, there is no compassion nor comfort but judgement and legalism. At least the orthodox Churches don't quote things like; " (Hebrews 9:27) Just as people are destined to die once, and ...", as I have heard at Revivalists services. My take is that the only thing to rely on is the bible in this matter. As for being "non-informed" and it has nothing to do with my cultural upbringing and lack of evidence you are sadly mistaken. My passed experience and much study of the topic makes it more informed than the delusion of being self opinionated and self righteous. The bible is true, I would really like you to show us why you think it is not. Evidence please, not self opinion.
2 Sep 17, 12:45
biblianut: anon, Know this, responsible Christians dismantle the tired old theologies of escapism and evacuation and give more hope in this life and that to come.
2 Sep 17, 22:50
Anon: Biblianut, if there is to be argument, then the onus is on believers to prove the Bible is the infallible word of God. When people make claims about the supernatural, we ask them for evidence. It's not just me saying this, it's how our society works. If we made laws that accommodated people making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims to excuse their actions, what a godawful mess it would be! It's so obvious that the Bible was written by men and written to cast God in the image of mankind and written to make it necessary to have faith and not offer any actual evidence other than what adherents perceive about their experience (/oh and beware of confirmation bias). All branches of Christianity are a deception unfortunarely, along with all other branches of all other reliveings. But an understandable deception given the egocentric needs of human beings.
2 Sep 17, 22:51
Anon: * religions
3 Sep 17, 00:51
biblianut: anon, Believe what you want to believe mate. Your take not mine.
3 Sep 17, 09:20
Blue: Some people need hope, some don't.
3 Sep 17, 11:28
biblianut: You gotta have hope Tracy. It's so easy to give up if we look on the negative all the time. Live life with what's about you, family , friends, interact with others, good or bad. Forgive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7imukzrx0sE
3 Sep 17, 23:46
anon: Let's not equate lack of belief in some religious god-concept as lacking in hope! Secular hope can be in love, support, dignity and fairness - things that can be meaningful and tangible in THIS life. Not dependent on ancient writings that make promises about the future that can never be tested (how convenient!). We do our best as human beings to be true to our values, have meaningful relationships and leave a positive legacy. Christianity didn't invent love and compassion. Or forgiveness. Or any other good quality for that matter! And as for the question of the existence of god, we can't know for sure. That is, in my case, other than being confident in ruling out the man-made religions that simply don't pass the test of reasoning (as explained several times here).
4 Sep 17, 00:26
biblianut: anon, There is the difference between hope and 'not so' hope. Reasoning from informed information is the status-quo. Not self opinionated views as been explained here before. Each to his/her own I guess.
4 Sep 17, 20:28
anon: biblianut, my views are informed by reasoning however you seem to claim your religious beliefs are "informed" which I find surprising. Informed by what? However, I've said, religion fills an egocentric human need, and as you've said, each to their own.
5 Sep 17, 18:11
biblianut: anon, You need to have a read of "Faith and Reason" by Ronald Nash. This gives one a proper perspective of believing in God/Christianity. https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Reason-Ronald-H-Nash/dp/0310294010. There is no point of commenting on something you nothing about.
5 Sep 17, 21:59
anon: biblianut, if youre a believer, you can rationalise anything to your satisfaction (possibly you lack understanding of confirmation bias, a proven human trait). The philosophical arguments that give credence to religion all rely on premises like (simplistically) "there is a universe and so on, therefore there must be a creator", premises that are not logically true and do not even begin to justify why any particular god (such as a Christian god) is THE ONE. But as I've said religion meets a need, as humans are self centred, and religion preys on the self centred desire to believe that oneself could not possibly just cease to exist when dead (shock horror). Oh, and as I was previously a believer for over two decades I know exactly what I'm talking about.
5 Sep 17, 23:09
biblianut: Ha ha, so being a "believer" for two decades makes you something of an oracle on divine matters and afterlife. Been there hey? I have the support of Christian witness throughout history. In other words I do have evidence and reason to believe other than self-opinionated views you persistently put forward.
5 Sep 17, 23:27
biblianut: Fww, I remember we have had similar discussion on the forum proper and covered most everything then. Moderator at the time must have deemed our posts as nonsense and decided to terminate all. To be honest, I have more important things to do with my time and that is to interact with people like minded in eternal security. Good luck in life. Ciao.
6 Sep 17, 00:18
anon: No prob's. Good luck in life too. And the next one!
10 Sep 17, 20:47
Neddles: Good evening all
10 Sep 17, 20:47
Neddles: Neddles is back
10 Sep 17, 20:47
Neddles: did you all miss me
10 Sep 17, 20:48
Neddles: well Its good to have the internet, thank God,
10 Sep 17, 20:49
Neddles: current work is in SA APY lands, indigenous land about the size of Tassie, only way to see the lands is with a permit, so I took a job there
10 Sep 17, 20:49
Neddles: no bitumen roads in Umuwa where I stay, SAT net and TV
10 Sep 17, 20:50
Neddles: look on FB Umuwa to see my travels
10 Sep 17, 20:54
Neddles: No church around here, so it's me and God to talk to, closest town Is Marla on the Stuart HY, seen a church at Pukajta, next time pass will see if it is open, old mission town , no mobile here , Ernabella has mobile, well life is good with God on my mind
10 Sep 17, 20:55
Neddles: Question have never found much info about those who speak in the real Tongues, and how would you test or know it is a real tongue of God as per 2 Cor 12-14
10 Sep 17, 20:58
Neddles: The false belief RCI has you need to speak in tongues per Acts, and they speak in tongues could very well be from the evil one, God-Jesus left us with a difficult book to follow
10 Sep 17, 21:05
Neddles: Spoke to Bris friend who still goes to RCI tells me they have moved to under the story bridge , with 50 going there, slowly they all dying off, 10 years from now it will be de-funked, under Dr Darcy rule
12 Sep 17, 17:53
biblianut: Hi Neddles, The bible is the easiest book to follow. One needs to be able to read it properly. I started out with "How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth" by Gordon D Fee. https://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bible-All-Worth/dp/0310246040
12 Sep 17, 18:21
Blue: Hi Neddles :)
14 Sep 17, 20:47
anon: Ah tongues. Theres a blast from my past. Tongues is not a supernatural phenomenon I assure you. Humans have amazing language capability which is only partly understood by the scientists. When you talk it feels like youre talking as fast as you can think, right? You don’t have to consciously form words. Your words are formed subconsciously at the speed of thought. That said, why should it be surprising that you can produce speech-like sounds when you're not really thinking, as in "speaking with tongues". The difference being that when youre not thinking, the “language” is gibberish not actual speech. So its not a case of good or evil tongues. Its all just a very human phenomenon and so many have been misled unfortunately.
14 Sep 17, 21:12
biblianut: anon, I have to agree on that one old dude. I've done some reading on studies were it has been proven a human trait (Except narrative in 'Acts' as a supernatural event). Even my own experience "speaking in tongues" leaves a lot to be desired as a supernatural phenomenon.
14 Sep 17, 22:31
anon: Sure thing Bib. Nice to find some common ground.
15 Sep 17, 10:05
biblianut: Neddles (or anyone), Here is an online bible study you may be interested in and it's free. Ralph https://www.biblicaltraining.org/bible-study-methods/mark-strauss
15 Sep 17, 21:16
Neddles: thanks
15 Sep 17, 21:17
Neddles: nothing to do tonight
15 Sep 17, 21:17
Neddles: good that I have internet
15 Sep 17, 21:17
Neddles: or else I would go stir crazy
15 Sep 17, 21:22
Neddles: Fee is a good writer of the Bible topics, I wonder what I would do if I was born 100 years earlier, be just a plain roman catholic, living out in the bush, How does God judge such persons, vast info mation available today compared to just having the Bible and a priest telling you what it means 100 years ago. Are we any better off spiritually today compared to past years
16 Sep 17, 00:20
biblianut: Neddles, Good question. I don't think we would be "saved" anymore or any less, even if we lived thousandths of years ago so long as we believe/d and know God's grace. It is nothing we can do of ourselves. Just know that it comes with love from God through Jesus. A gift of love not requiring anything in return but thanksgiving and to have faith in Him. God does not judge those that love Him.
16 Sep 17, 00:23
biblianut: Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. We must come to him first.
17 Sep 17, 21:45
Neddles: Technology is great thanks God, downloaded Fees book How to read the Bible on Kindle half way through it now thanks to Bubblenuts
17 Sep 17, 22:10
Neddles: Did not Jesus say he will make it known in our hearts, so the Bible was written, or the words taken down, then it was to be translated into the worlds languages, So God knew us humans would transcribe the book with faults, and we have to figure out what the truth is, and there would be VAST difference of religions come into existence, all saying were are the true church and this is our doctrine of the bible, so much for a simple book to follow God's way, its a never ending learning and searching that seems till I die, I will never fully know what is a true following, I can just do MY best,
17 Sep 17, 23:35
biblianut: Neddles, Keeping searching with prayer. God will show you the right way. I still discover and learn, even after all the years.
17 Sep 17, 23:42
biblianut: Remember to keep in mind, "The Gospel is not about what Jesus can do for you, but what he has already done".
19 Sep 17, 09:33
biblianut: Church stands committed on marriage between man and women only. https://www.eternitynews.com.au/in-depth/fact-check-what-do-christian-churches-really-think-about-same-sex-marriage/
23 Sep 17, 11:42
Blue: Church is always committed to their dogma, which is all they care about. Not people.
23 Sep 17, 14:34
biblianut: Yes Tracy !
23 Sep 17, 21:47
biblianut: If church was committed to their "dogma", they do care about people. That's what Christian dogma is all about.
23 Sep 17, 21:49
biblianut: or should be!
24 Sep 17, 08:06
Blue: Never has been. That is why so many blind eyes were turned to child abuse, and why some churches think treating gay people like dirt is ok. Churches are arrogant.
24 Sep 17, 11:37
biblianut: Child abuse is rife throughout the world. I personally have not come across it in the churches I have been involved, Perhaps except in the GRC among some young people. Then it was only hearsay, but came from the victim. Churches have a role to play to support, nurture and reconcile people to God. Sadly, the human side of nature will not let the Church function, as it is ordained to do. Ministers and elders are there to teach and to guide believers in the things of God, not there for there own pleasures and desires. Members also must be supportive and give to the needs of others, not to criticize and point their finger to one that might err in their walk. My take, there are churches that leave a lot to be desired, but also most Christian churches do
24 Sep 17, 11:37
biblianut: battle on and keep warm.
24 Sep 17, 11:40
biblianut: (typeo
24 Sep 17, 11:42
biblianut: (type errors) ...most churches do the right thing. Tracy battle on and keep warm.
27 Sep 17, 20:24
Blue: Most churches protect their ass mate, like every other organisation on the planet.
28 Sep 17, 00:02
biblianut: did you know that "churches are no
28 Sep 17, 00:17
biblianut: Did you know that the function of the Church is not to try and work out people's mental and personal problems? Society has other organisations such as mental health care and experts in psychiatric work to cater for those needs. The Church is to call and make disciples of people who are willing to believe and follow in the things of Jesus Christ, ready for the coming Kingdom of heaven here on earth.
1 Oct 17, 16:04
mothy: Pete. If you actually think Jesus' historical existence is in doubt, then you're on drugs :) It's neither historical possible, nor historically probable, but historically certain. Are you up to the challenge of taking this discussion further? Ian -
1 Oct 17, 16:07
mothy: I'm certainly not up to the challenge of debating you about anything, but I'd be very surprised that you could prove Jesus existed. From what I know, as a layman, and casual observer, there is next to no evidence. Sure it's likely a carpenter named Jesus existed 2000 years ago, but outside the fictional writings of the Bible I don't think there's much to go on.
2 Oct 17, 20:43
biblianut: In a court of law, evidence can be based on the account of two or more independent eye witnesses. There are hundreds of independant eye witnesses recorded at the time of Jesus on earth. What more proof that Jesus did exist does one need.
3 Oct 17, 15:54
biblianut: Why is it that men believe in written history such as Nero, Mohammed, Constantine, to name a few, even Batman (Just kidding :D ), yet not willing to believe in Jesus? After all, it is from eye witness accounts that are recorded.
4 Oct 17, 18:07
Blue: And what if both the witnesses are lying in court, what then young Ralph?
4 Oct 17, 20:56
biblianut: Then one goes on other evidence that might correspond with the facts.
4 Oct 17, 20:57
biblianut: that's to see if the witnesses are lying or not.
6 Oct 17, 15:18
mothy: Can we put some of those witnesses on the stand?
6 Oct 17, 15:19
mothy: Hearsay evidence is "an out-of-court statement introduced to prove the truth of matter asserted therein". In certain courts, hearsay evidence is inadmissible (the "Hearsay Evidence Rule") unless an exception to the Hearsay Rule applies.
6 Oct 17, 15:22
mothy: There's a tad more evidence for Mohammed and Nero's existence than Jesus, especially if it's the 'magic' Jesus you're trying to give evidence for.
6 Oct 17, 15:38
mothy: But hey, I accept Nero existed and I can accept Jesus existed. Most probably a charismatic person not unlike any other church or cult leader. If you told me Nero could walk on water and control the weather, I might start to doubt a few things though.
6 Oct 17, 19:17
biblianut: But Nero claimed he was God didn't he? Why not believe that? Goodness knows why they believed that at the time. Maybe he did walk on water. hee
6 Oct 17, 19:20
biblianut: I guess in the end it all boils down to faith in what one believes is the truth..
6 Oct 17, 19:22
biblianut: none can really be sure but by reason and faith.
9 Oct 17, 22:29
anon: I agree with biblianut that "in the end it all boils down to faith in what one believes is the truth". Many humans have a capacity for faith in an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, eternally-existing, universe-creating, loving, benevolent but never-visible God who chose to communicate with the entire human race by inspiring a book to be written, concluding some 2,000 years ago and giving rise to the confusion of doctrines and interpretations that we call "Christianity". But that all sounds like a massive contradiction, doesn't it?
11 Oct 17, 21:11
biblianut: NO! :lol:
12 Oct 17, 17:34
Didaktion: Pete. Still doubting Jesus' existence, huh? Ian
16 Oct 17, 23:25
biblianut: Roman annuls mention Jesus quite a lot in time of Crucifixion. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Romans+said+a+lot+about+Jesus&rlz=1C1GGRV_en-GBAU748AU748&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=VwUzW7awwVASvM%253A%252CxfVtrdohkCXjXM%252C_&usg=__zPqUCGREQEgM3cRWX25r_jniQtc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_3P6MnfXWAhUprlQKHcN3ChwQ9QEIKjAB#imgrc=VwUzW7awwVASvM:
16 Oct 17, 23:34
biblianut: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Romans+said+a+lot+about+Jesus&rlz=1C1GGRV_en-GBAU748AU748&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=VwUzW7awwVASvM%253A%252CxfVtrdohkCXjXM%252C_&usg=__zPqUCGREQEgM3cRWX25r_jniQtc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_3P6MnfXWAhUprlQKHcN3ChwQ9QEIKjAB#imgrc=VwUzW7awwVASvM:
16 Oct 17, 23:39
biblianut: (oops)https://atheistforum.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/does-tacitus-provide-independent-testimony-about-jesus/
16 Oct 17, 23:43
biblianut: http://bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm
16 Oct 17, 23:45
biblianut: Notwithstanding the impact this event has on the world to this day.